Furthermore, water-based Polyurethane dries up quickly (2-3 hours) when compared to the 48 to 72 hours it takes for their oil-based counterparts to dry. Rubbing out is nothing more than abrading the surface until it’s nice and smooth. After the glue up I hand sanded thoroughly from 120grit to 220grit. Hope this is of some help. a damp cloth. We have created these special content collections organized to give you a deep dive into a range of topics that matter. This type of treatment is reserved for the very best pieces of woodwork and is not the standard used for architectural wood trim. Pine is a very soft, porous wood, so it soaks up a lot of finish. The point is to remove ... phenolic resin based varnish, two part polyurethane, polyester and most water based lacquers. Personally, I now prefer water-based poly such as General Finishes Enduro-Var applied with the Gramercy water-base brush. Fortunately rubbing to a satin finish is easier:1--Sand the surface flat so there are no ridges, brush marks, depressions, dust specks, etc. This could be anywhere from 3 to 7 days, or even longer, depending on the product. They dry fast which means you have to apply them fast. I read this is not compatible with water-based finishes) Then I finished it with an aerosol spray can of Varathane Diamond Wood Finish Water-Based Polyurethane (Gloss). Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. © 2021 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. *How you rub out a water-based finish depends on several things. Polyurethane is the modern product most often used as varnish, or clear finish, on … Stop sooner at a lower grit and you can achieve the perfect semi-gloss, satin, or matte finish. ... "Rubbing out" is an abrasive process so poly will fight it. Here are some of the steps by which the customers can easily get rid of the water-based polyurethane finish: Use The Sandpaper: The customers need to start by using a 400 grit sandpaper and rubbing it vigorously all over the surface of the Polyurethane finish in … To reveal flaws (bubbles, brush marks, etc.) Rub to an Even, Flat Sheen. Shellac, solvent and water-based lacquers and two part finishes should cure at least a week. UNLIMITED membership - Get access to it all. You'll know the surface is flat when it appear dull, with no shiny spots. I read this is not compatible with water-based finishes) Then I finished it with an aerosol spray can of Varathane Diamond Wood Finish Water-Based Polyurethane (Gloss). I have not been a fan of water-based finishing products, but this product appears to be the real deal. A place where people can come to learn and share their experiences of doing, building and fixing things on their own. And, most importantly, what look are you trying to create? 2--Continue sanding with progressivly finer grits. Rubbing out the finish. Repeat 4 or so times. Yes you can rub out a water base polyurethane but not to satin. There are three strong reasons for doing so. This is where the finish begins to come to life, taking on an attractive, flat sheen with no visible defects. Natural bristles will absorb the water and swell up. *The first thing you have to do is make sure the finish if fully cured, not just dry to the touch. If you want you can use water, oil or wool lube as a lubricant to make the rubbing easier. I found rubbing with the grain was fine, no need to make circles or figure eights. On the downside, water-based poly tends to raise the grain of the wood, is susceptible to watermarks, and can be … ML Campbell also sells water-based products that the pros use, but to my knowledge they only sell in large quantities. You can rub out all types of film forming finishes, including shellac, lacquer, oil based varnish and polyurethane, waterbased coatings and catalyzed or conversion coatings. This is a water-based spray lacquer that performs like traditional lacquer. Thinning the polyurethane makes it flow on more smoothly and reduces brush marks. Our biweekly podcast allows editors, authors, and special guests to answer your woodworking questions and connect with the online woodworking community. Use steam to create strong, curved parts with continuous grain. Brush out bubbles in a fresh polyurethane finish. Begin with a small area, make 2-3 passes, then evaluate results. Use a simple shopmade jig to create cabinets that stand the test of time. Good luck,Andy Charron. In general terms, the longer you let a water-based finish cure, the easier it will be to rub out (within reason, of course). The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Thank you very much for the advice! Oil-based varnishes and polyurethane should cure at least two weeks. Put a few more coats on, concentrating on the areas where it's most dry. The steel wool will give you a soft, satiny shine.Just be careful when you start the sanding process that you don't cut through the top coat. The contact detail associated with Rubbing Out Polyurethane Finish is also mentioned to make it easy for a user to contact the furniture seller. * Any suggestions for rubbing out a water-based poly? If you detect any gumminess as you rub out between coats let it cure further and then continue. Has anybody out there tried this or any other methods? Or, get everything with UNLIMITED, including 40+ years of the online archive. Using coarse steel wool helps as larger fibers will be easier to detect. Become an UNLIMITED member and get it all: searchable online archive of every issue, how-to videos, Complete Illustrated Guide to Woodworking digital series, print magazine, e-newsletter, and more. The second (and subsequent) coat(s) remelt the coats preceeding it, allowing the finish to flow together. Most of the time, you have to “finish the finish”. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month. Sand with medium grit sandpaper and recoat. Tackcloths can be used on oil-based poly but not on water-based. It is resistant to water, alcohol, household chemicals, scratching, chipping, and wear. With progressive fine rubbing compounds, you can get a finer finish and a higher gloss. Clark Kellogg shows you how to make your own metal hardware using many of the tools you already own, plus a handful of others. Before the 5th and final coat I sanded again with the 400 grit paper. Polyurethane is the toughest, most flexible, least obtrusive, and most durable clear-coating available. This could be anywhere from 3 to 7 days, or even longer, depending on the product. Begin rubbing-out with medium-grade, (00 steel wool equivalent) synthetic abrasive pads (Photo 4). Am I on the right track? What kind of finish is it? I would like to help but need to no more.Andy Charron. I would like to achieve a high-luster satin finish. Finishes that are soft, or tough and flexible can be rubbed out, but they don't always take a uniform sheen and … Ihad good luck using my ROS with sanding film and soapy water on a big slab I finished with Arm-R-Seal. If the finish is gummy and loads up the paper in the initial leveling, it’s not dry enough. There are several techniques by Jeff Jewitt of Homestead Finishing Products: DRY BUFF WITH MIRKA ROYAL MICRO PAPER. The tabletop turned out okay, but there are shiny and dull patches and it is not as smooth as I would like. Let it cure longer. Rubbing out a finish is the last step in finishing. Water-based finishes can be a bit difficult to rub to a high gloss, especially finishes that contain a high percentage of urethane resins. Water-base finishes must be applied with synthetic bristles. Polyurethane is a common modern wood finish that can be purchased with either an oil or a water base. The smooth, clear look that you see on expensive furniture and high-end musical instruments, such as pianos and guitars, is achieved by rubbing out the finish. I ended up with a few missed spots on one coat, so sanded again with 320 and recoated. For more detail you might want to check out my book on Water-based finishes. Water-based polyurethane versions dry much more quickly, are a bit more self-leveling, and have less odor when applying than oil-based versions. How Long Do You Let Polyurethane Cure Before Wet Sanding?. The sandpaper is soaked in water for 5 minutes or so prior to sanding. Rubbing the Finish. Spraying the finish is … mike_maglio | Posted in Finishing on August 12, 1999 09:09am * Any suggestions for rubbing out a water-based poly? The patchiness is from the finish still being soaked up by the wood. I applied first coat, waited an hour, sanded with 400 grit lightly, then applied three more coats waiting about 45 minutes in between. How many coats did you apply? Keep applying more coats. Prepare the polyurethane by reducing it about 10 percent with mineral spirits, unless you're using water-based polyurethane, which doesn't need thinning. The final step is to buff out the 2000-grit scratches with polishing compound. Plus tips, advice, and special offers from Fine Woodworking. And don’t drag the brush on the edge of the can. I brushed on 4 coats of water based polyurethane (hi-gloss) over a waterbased stain. I did it for the same reason you want to, to eliminate some finishing defects and give a uniform flat, smooth surface. For a satin finish I stop at 600.3--Rub the entire surface with 0000 steel wool. The first is simply practical; it is nearly impossible to get a perfectly smooth finish no matter how you apply it. rubbing out water based poly? If you're committed to an oil-based finish, hand rubbing with polish or wipe-on varnish is probably the most effective way to … *Andy, I'm putting a finish on a desk I recently made. ⚛ The information about Rubbing Out Polyurethane Finish 7 Easy Steps To Rub is completely presented here. 10. Go to a heavier grit if surface irregularities are not fully removed. Though, after application, one needs nothing less than three coats to achieve a perfect finish for water-based liquid, that’s not the case with the latter. You don't need to wait until the poly is cured, just dried. The only way to get rid of them is to apply another coat and start over. Rubbing the finish removes dust nibs, brush marks and other imperfections, levels the surface, and gives an even sheen. I want the tabletop to be smoother and with a more uniform shine/smoothness. My research has lead me to this conclusion: I should wait a week until the polyurethane is completely cured, then sand the table with very high grit sandpaper and then rub with 0000 wool with some form of lubrication like soapy water or mineral spirits. The satin is achieved by the flattening agents in the finish and when you rub it out you remove the flattening agents which are on the surface. (ie--satin, gloss or a really high "piano finish" gloss?) Using Mirka Royal Micro sandpaper, always start with 1500-grit sandpaper. In reality, simply applying a few coats of clear finish and waiting for them to dry rarely leads to a smooth, consistent look. I was considering wet sanding with 600 grit wet-dry sandpaper. Quick Tip! Take it to a high enough grit and you’ll be polishing the surface to a super high gloss. Replies. Rubbing out a poly finish can be done, but as you suspect, there's a hazard built in because of the difference in the finish. Finish with 1500-grit paper. From the second you start rubbing the finish, you start to improve the surface tremendously. Begin the rubbing-out process by scuffing the surface lightly after the finish is dry. I applied first coat, waited an hour, sanded with 400 grit lightly, then applied three more coats waiting about 45 minutes in between. Enter now for your chance to win more than $2,000 worth of woodworking equipment from Woodpeckers. If this is the case and you cut through the top coat, you will be left with witness lines. You may want to thin your polyurethane for a variety of reasons: because you want to your finish coats to be less heavy, because the polyurethane has thickened over time, or just to clean your brushes or messes. Click for full details. When you get to the bottom of this article, check out my video on how I used buffing techniques to get rid of scuffs and scratches on my vehicles. Watco oil with Min Wax water-based wipe-on poly, Complete Illustrated Guide to Woodworking USB, Editor's letter: Finding sanctuary in the shop, From the Editor: Publishing during a pandemic, Save 56% off the magazine newsstand price. 11. Polyurethane is a reactive finish; the finish is actually in layers. Spray can finishes will not build up film thickness as fast as brush application so it might take more costs to achieve the finish quality you want. But its application is demanding and aggravating. When the surface feels smooth you are ready to nib. Rubbing Out. Has anybody out there tried this or any other methods? Behind the front's flowing grain lie simple and smart building strategies. Prepare the surface to be finished. I was considering wet sanding with 600 grit wet-dry sandpaper. How was it applied? A flawless surface is elusive. It looks dry to me, you need more coats if you want uniform shine. The finish really needs to be applied and left alone. Use a backer block, and start standing, apply a sprinkle or two of water to keep the sanding action lubed. **Note: Use oil-based varnish over shellac. Soaking the brush also softens the bristles to make your application even better. I use wet/dry paper and a wood block to do this. Let the brush soak until air bubbles stop coming out from the ferrule, then remove the brush and gently wring out the solvent. Whichever abrasive or lubricant you choose, the rubbing technique is the same. If your paper gums up with little globs of material, toss it and get another sheet. Do not use polyurethane or water-based acrylics because they will not adhere to shellac. Some water-based products bond, or melt-in, between coats while others simply lay one coat on top of the next. Reply. When the finish hardens, you have to sand them out and apply a new finish. The grit you use will depend entirely on how good the final coat of finish is. Soak your brush in water(for water-based polyurethane) or mineral oils (for oil-based polyurethane). Water-based finishes can be a bit difficult to rub to a high gloss, especially finishes that contain a high percentage of urethane resins. The longer you wait the better. The problems with water-based polyurethane are that it doesn't level out as smoothly as an oil-based finish, and it doesn't protect as well against the elements. Subscribe today, now up to 64% off newsstand. It is a panel of pine boards glued together. Most of our tabletops are finished with polyurethane varnish. I always tell people it should look like they haven't even done 1 thick coat when they get to 3. In this article I’ll show you how it applies here to a polyurethane wood finishes — either oil-based or water based. Keep applying more coats with light sanding between coats and it will smooth out. The key to this process is letting the finish cure. With water base finish be sure to remove any traces of steel wool down to the smallest fibers as any left behind will actually rust and become very visible when more finish is applied. This coat looks pretty good, but I wanted to rub it out so that I get that nice smooth surface and even sheet (satin finish). You're doing it perfectly, nice thin coats is the way to go with a spray can. After finishing the 2000 grit pass, rinse off and let dry. Rub to a Satin Sheen. In general terms, the longer you let a water-based finish cure, the easier it will be to rub out (within reason, of course). Make Fine Woodworking a part of your holiday. X. If it's well cured you should have no trouble rubbing out a polyurethane finish. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. It dries fast so you can apply three coats in a day. Any suggestions? Water based finishes can be a little tricky to apply. Rubbing Out By Hand Using Traditional Materials Rubbing out a water based poly finish. Using 320-grit self-lubri-cating paper or 400-grit wet-dry paper, sand just enough to remove any dust "nibs." I have built a pine tabletop: http://imgur.com/a/7mtgM. Lacquer is an evaporative finish.
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